Feuds & Personal Attacks: The Small Fry Always Loses

I’m not really sure why, but I’m always wildly drawn into watching feuds ensue between two members of the same circle. Maybe it’s my unhealthy fascination with seeing someone beat down into submission… or maybe I just enjoy the role of being commentator and gossip-hound of the events. I can’t change who I am, so with that being said:

I’ve witnessed two of these so-called “feuds” between bloggers in the past weeks – both of which were highly entertaining in their own right and drew some great comment discussion in the process.

Extreme John vs. iWoodpecker

The more recent proceeding occurred when Allan at iWoodpecker accused Extreme John, the extroverted and colorful personality at ExtremeJohn.com of anywhere from topic pilfering to downright plagiarism of a recently written post of his. Now, this is one of the highest allegations you can make towards someone in the writing profession so, as you can probably guess, it caused a proverbial shit storm in it’s wake that bled over to public posts on the issue made by both parties:

Extreme John: 10 Reasons I Wouldn’t Copy Your Article
iWoodpecker: Why I Blamed John in Stealing My Idea
Extreme John: Cheddar Bob The Blogger

Wassup Blog vs. Darren Rowse (among others)

Earlier this month though, a more notable case of personal attacks (or at least a questioning of one’s ideology) took place when Sire of Wassup Blog published a post explaining why he no longer links to the likes of ProBlogger and John Chow. The gist of the matter was his issue with A-list bloggers lack of effort in commenting on other blogs within their niche… or these “rockstars” even giving recognition of others who comment by visiting their blogs in return.

Of course, as with any public “e-penis” fight, comments from onlookers came in immediately. Even David Risley was dragged into the discussion somehow and inspired a video post on his part on the issue when comments begin to hurt your blogging. One of the “called out” parties showed up soon afterwards when Darren Rowse of ProBlogger.net confronted the issue head on and explained his side on this alleged claim of hypocrisy on his part.

I won’t get into the exact details and eventual resolution to both conflicts. I’ll save that for you to read yourself… but if you’re the type that loves car wrecks and skateboarding bloopers, I definitely suggest you check out the posts – especially the bevy of comments that ensued between all parties involved in the process.

What can we learn from these two examples?

It’s no surprise at all, but if we kept a “scorecard” in both instances, the bigger fish ended up trumping the smaller minnow by a fairly large margin. Why was that the case though? Was it because the winning party was essentially correct or was it going to be perceived that way regardless of the facts?

Feuds and battles like these have been going on for eons between warring sides of an issue or struggles for power within a specific circle. In almost all situations, the small fry always loses. This is because the “minnow” is lacking in one very important attribute that makes for a successful persuasion. Trust.

When someone has more attained influence and authority on a matter, their words automatically will carry more weight no matter how convincing the other side can be in refuting their arguments. Breaking this established trust the bigger fish has with those you’re looking to dissuade is an uphill battle, at best. Sometimes even cold hard facts and direct evidence won’t even persuade loyalists who believe the person they trust can do no wrong. If that’s the case, what options does the small fry have to have any chance of coming out ahead?

  • Question the intent of the bigger fish.

Argue the fact that your opponent is arguing! The intent of another party is very easy to attack because proof is nearly impossible to achieve. Although it’s a fairly ineffective method of persuading other, pointing out that your opponent feels the need to refute a statement you made shows that there is some insecurity that onlookers will believe it to be true. This, in and of itself, brings to light that there is a possibility your argument is valid. If it was so outrageous, your opponent would never participate in a debate at all as there would be no need to convince others such radical claims were false. It would be easily apparent.

  • State arguments in terms of a utopia.

One of my favorite methods of attack, get your opponent to actually *agree* with you openly and outright. Of course, the only way possible is to state your argument in the environment of a utopia that may or may not be achievable in any fashion.

“I think we were right to go to war against Iraq.”
“But you believe that war is inherently a bad thing, right?”
“Yes, of course.”
“So then you’d rather wars not happen at all… which includes us being in Iraq.”

  • Fight with sheer unmatched quantity.

If you can’t make one single convincing argument, then why not make 100 of them? Make so many that your opponent will eventually agree with one of them which you can then leverage to refute a future statement of theirs. Or even better, maybe they’ll just succumb to the onslaught and concede!

The last option a small fry has may actually be the best course of action. Don’t make the argument to begin with. There are probably better avenues to build your influence than fighting a battle that is nearly impossible to win. This is especially true in a situation where there’s little to gain upon winning and a lot to lose if you come out scathed. Sure, you may get some short-term traffic, comments & gossip for “calling out” one of the bigger fish, but will it be good promotion for yourself?

Think about this next time you want to stir up controversy by way of a personal attack. It may be you who ends up getting pwned in the process!


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  • First off let me start off by saying thank you for the mention, if nothing else at least I was able to offer up some entertainment for the week when I decided to respond to Pecker. I really don't see myself as anything more than a small fry, so I think the part for me that was weird was the fact that this "blogger" would decide to take a shot at me, or better yet just flat out make some crap up.

    There isn't really a tremendous difference between me on the web and me in real life, I am a pretty easy guy to get along with but I am quick to react when I feel someone is questioning my integrity. Most often I will chose to ignore stuff like the iWoodpecker thing, but I had some extra time on my hads that day and it offered up some nice time filling options :)

    As for Sire, that whole thing really exploded over nothing and was taken out of context. I will be the first one to tell you that I honestly don't care who John Chow is or what he did, and I can care less if Darren Rouse comments on blogs or comments on his own blog for that matter, it's his life he can run the show however he wants. Much like Sire, you won't find me dropping comments and retweeting most "Pro Bloggers" because I don't read their blogs, I don't idolize people that put their pants on the same way that I do. I enjoy the blogs I read and I couldn't tell you if the blogs in my reader are "Pro Blogs" or not pro blogs, and the best part is I don't care.

    It's like watching NASCAR, aside from the final lap there is nothing exciting about watching cars drive peacefully around a track 200 times over the course of 4 hours, throw in that accident and everyone is glued to the set. There's nothing wrong with a little blog drama to keep things interesting, all though I wouldn't recommend doing stupid shit like iWoodpecker did because at the end of the day he just had no real answer and no real response, and he certainly didn't offer any real apology..... it's hard to consider someone like that a real blogger, period.
  • Thanks for stopping by, John! I think we're both the same, albeit in different ways, that we are who we are and won't change that online or off. But yes, if someone questions my integrity as it was done to you, I would have reacted in the same fashion,

    Regardless if you're a "small fry" or a "pro blogger", I just wanted to highlight the fact that you can't willy-nilly go and call out people without dotting your I's and crossing your T's - because if your viewpoint is flawed in any way, you'll end up on the wrong side of the stick. I've made that mistake myself a few times in stand-up comedy when I was younger and there are a few comics that 10 years later still won't talk to me because of it.
  • I never took Sire's post as an attack. Of course a title like that is born to gain attention from Darren and his loyal followers, nonetheless it was not a post made to draw traffic.

    As for Allan I still think he jumped the gun and thought John did copy him then when he realized that his assumption was only making him out to look like an a** he came up with the post that he knew what he was doing all along & it was an experiment to gain traffic.( Not buying it Pecker!)
  • Debbie Ferm
    That whole hullaballoo was interesting to watch. I didn't think it was so much Sire that criticized them in the beginning, as it was the commenters. But then he showed up at David Risley's blog and despite David giving an excellent explanation, he just kept hounding him.

    Of course, everyone knows you can't be successful or make a little money without being raked over the coals. God forbid you make a lot of money. Then, of course, you're a capitalist pig infidel.

    This site cracks me up. Keep up the good work!

    Debbie Ferm
  • Jordon I loved your video! You know I had a feud with one guy when I first started blogging. His was the owner of blogging zoom. Back in the day (2 years ago) he had the same type of community as I did a social networking for bloggers. I think the fight started in bloggeries blog forums and to be honest I don’t’ think I would have ever one that feud if it’s wasn’t for Rob owner of bloggeries sticking up for me in the forum.

    But I’ll tell you Vic was an ass! Now after watching a few of his video’s and reading some of his articles it turns out he’s not really a big ass it’s just the way he is.

    Point being is no fight turns our right! Win or loose I still lost another potential customer of my blogengage community. He would have been a great supporter to build a relationship with and I ruined it.

    It’s ironic that iwoodpecker picked Extreme John to fight with. I almost had it out with john 4 or 5 months ago but I withdrawn and apologized for my statement. I was able to resolve the issue because it’s was all done in private. (no one knows about this but me and him)

    None the less my point is don’t’ burn bridges. If I would had stuck to my guns and debated John I would never have gotten the support and promotion from him that I do to this day.

    John writes an article about blogengage every week! He supports the community and has become a friend of mine. So from the first fight with Vic until now I avoid fighting because it’s not worth the effort.

    Also Jordon thanks for supporting the community with the button and 125 ad!
  • Brian, I'd agree that "don't burn bridges" is a good ideology. But taking it to the point where you're unwilling to weigh in on any "controversial" issue for the fear of reprisal... it's just as bad, unless you're looking to create a very bland image.

    I have no problem "calling out" people that are full of shit, but I'll sure as hell make sure I've done my due diligence beforehand. As I said, especially doing so towards a "big fish", I'll have to absolutely have an ample supply of back up and make sure to words things as carefully as I can to make sure my viewpoint is taken in the right light.

    Personally, I prefer not to even name names when I tackle an issue that involves negative sentiment towards a specific person or persons. Just make a general statement or question that describes the person's activity, but doesn't accuse any one single person. I think iWoodpecker would have be better changing "ProBlogger & John Chow" to "some A-List bloggers" - there probably wouldn't have been as much jabbing back and forth from the parties at hand and a more productive conversation could have taken place.

    I don't know if you can tell, but I'm a very opinionated person and harshly critical - combine that with heavy sarcasm and a bit of arrogance, I know what happens when you fail to understand the ramifications of what you have to say regardless if it was meant with the best intentions.

    This is why you'll see me make videos & write commentary on an editorial subject without giving any specific examples of people "getting it wrong". Although the post may have been inspired from exactly that... I'd rather not turn it into a personal criticism, but into a quality discussion on the actual issue. I'll leave those people in the dark and let them think I'm not talking about them. :-)
  • mrcybersmart
    As an old school political blogger, I find these "commerce" type bolg wars to be rather petty and silly. I never even payed any attention. From what I understand, the first one was set up simply to drive traffic. That was a great idea! Now I will never go back to whatever blog that was.

    One thing that went under the radar this week, was when Darren Tweeted a link to a blog post that was taken from Problogger by a marketer! Just about word for word!

    This is the best post on the issue. No need for me to look any further.
  • Hey Jordan, how's it going mate? First off I agree with a lot of what you said, especially the part about me being a small fry, as far as blogging is concerned. When I first wrote that post there was no intention of calling out any of the big guys. I didn't even link to any of them, as that would have defeated the whole point of the post.

    Earlier that day I made a conscious decision as to why I wasn't going to comment on their blogs and I decided, as most bloggers do, to share it with my readers. I sure as hell didn't want to cause a confrontation with any of the Pro bloggers of the world. As it was they probably would never have found out if it wasn't for a comment that mentioned David's name which alerted him via backtype, and who the hell knew that was possible.

    Anyway it was an interesting discussion, certainly not a feud, and one which I don't think harmed me at all. Sure there were some that called me petty and shit, but there were just as many that took my side.

    BTW, nice blog mate. I reckon I may pop back now and again just to see what new stuff you've come up with.
  • It's hard not to realize that titling a post "Why I no longer links to the likes of ProBlogger and John Chow" will get some attention. I definitely don't fault you for sharing your authentic thoughts with your readers (I applaud that actually) but it's best to think beforehand how your post will come across and how it will affect your reputation.

    Should you hold back though and stay in line with the status quo? Of course not. I just wanted to highlight the fact that as a "small fry", your views will be looked upon differently even if that wasn't your intention to begin with.
  • As you would probably know, the title can be the most important part of the post and it's supposed to get the intention of the readers. The post didn't bad mouth anyone and I'm quite pleased with the results. Neither of Darren or David had any problem with it, nor did the majority of the commentators.
    Sure there were a few who saw the negative side of it, but the world being what it is you just can't please everyone.
  • Sire's post was taken a bit out of context and wasn't a personal attack or calling out. I think Sire handled himself really well in the comments when defending himself. He never took it to a low and dirty level. I've respected Sire since that post. Before that post I'd never heard of him. Lol!

    He's one of the cool Antipodeans. :)
  • Thanks Gordie, and I can safely say that one of the benefits of that post was that it introduced me to so many other bloggers such as yourself.
  • You, actually, showed perfectly how it is. Me, as a small fry, would like to add, that it'll take a loooot of your patience and tolerance to fight this shit to the end. And it's hard.

    To make a video about this was a great idea. I wouldn't do that, because I hesitate a little about my language:)
  • Would have been nice if you hesitated about making false accusations. Instead of sweating the language problem maybe you should consider how many people think your an ass monkey for the sole fact that you didn't even offer up an apology for your dumb little stunt, instead you tried to glorify it.
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